As I was nearing the end of my last post, I began to wonder what it means to be a femme vs being feminine.
- femme- Exhibiting stereotypical or exaggerated feminine traits. Used especially of lesbians and gay men.
- feminine-
- Of or relating to women or girls.
- Characterized by or possessing qualities generally attributed to a woman.
- Effeminate; womanish.
-
Designating or belonging to the gender of words or grammatical forms that refer chiefly to females or to things classified as female.
That doesn’t help, does it? Here’s how I look at it…
A femme is a woman that screams girly when you look at her. Her hair is perfectly in place, her nails are done, she’s wearing heels and something that reveals her shape. She’s carrying a purse, her make up is applied perfectly, and she is completely accessorized from earrings to necklace to cell phone. Exaggerated physical traits. That makes sense now. Seperately, these traits don’t mean anything. Collectively, they make up a femme.
Femininity is about behavior. A bent wrist. A sashay in their walk. Legs crossed at the knee. You know where I’m going with this, right? Femininity does not have gender boundaries. A male or a female can be called feminine.
A femme can be feminine. Someone who is feminine is not necessarily a femme.
I will admit to being feminine. It’s something I can’t help or hide, but I’m not a femme. Though I can dress up like one for a night out. A night out= 4 hours. Then the make up is washed off, the jewelry is back in it’s box, the purse is back in the closet, and the push up bra is in the hamper…
This leads me to wonder if studs are attracted to femmes because of the visual appeal without concern to how feminine they actually are or for them being a femme and being feminine go hand in hand?
I have a friend who is called a femme all the time. She attracts studs, but can never keep one. Why? Because her personality is usually more dominant than the stud and it’s not what the stud was expecting. My friend often refers to herself as a “stud in stilettos.” Her attitude is harsh. She curses her girls until they cry. She likes to be in control in the bedroom. And she thinks like a man. Can’t you see why we’re friends? For most studs this is a bit of a blow to their perceived “masculinity,” so they move on to someone a bit more docile.
So where do you fit in? Are you a femme or simply feminine?
BTW, Happy Birthday Sip!
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Great blog. Okay, so i’m just a wierdo. Cuz im definitely feminine. Prissy would be the best way to describe it. Pinky fingers extended, eye brows perfectly arched, long nails, sashay all day, blah blah blah. So i guess that would make me a femme. (I don’t do the make up thing every day tho. Takes too much time.) But i have a very strong personality. I dont kno the meaninig of the word submissive and I pop off at the mouth at the drop of a dime. .lol. But i love love love me some studs. So it’s been hard finding that balance within myself that will enable a stud to still be a stud, while NOT compromising my own strong-headedness. It’s been a journey. Fortunately for myself im now with a woman who is ultra comfortable in her studness and knows that being a stud does not mean she automatically gets to run everything with a iron fist. So we both have our domineering traits at times that play fairly well off each other and for that im thankful!! Cuz honey chile i’ve been through the jungle wit some of these “studs” who want their femmes to shut up, turn around and jump when they say go. What the hell do i look like, a cockerspaniel? U betta go on somewhere. lol
Yes, if you’re describing yourself as prissy, then you are definitely a femme. I don’t believe that being a femme is about being submissive, though some studs would say that it was. It sounds like you and your stud have reached a place where you both can compromise to keep both of you happy…And that’s what it’s all about.
this is why labels mean everything and nothing at the same time. i dont think people should worry about whose femme/feminine or whos not. i think folks should just like who they like and what they like.
it could be your friend just hasn’t found the right “stud” for her. people are so diverse that we do ourselves an injustice when trying to place them in the box, because no one ever fits perfectly in boxes.
hell, my “stud” or whatever she is, is all of sudden interested in makeup (just for professional reasons she swears. lol). whatever. she is who she is. everyone one is unique.
where do i fit in? beats me.
People probably shouldn’t worry about the labels, but realistically when we first see someone, isn’t that what we do? We put them in a category, apply a label, and then we expect them to behave accordingly. And that’s not just in the gay community, that’s just in life.
I’ve had a stud that wore more make up than I did, lol. She was still obviously very dominant and aggressive though…
A stud that wore makeup? That’s a no-go for me–hell any woman who wears makeup is a no-go for, no matter “label.” lol
“this is why labels mean everything and nothing at the same time. ” I agree Tami. I also think we should just like who and what we like. point blank. With all honestly even though labels help us out a bit I don’t ever want to be put into a box! I like to just be! I would never want someone that met me on one of my “I’m feeling sexy” days and think that shit it going to happen everyday because it’s NOT!
I completely understand what you’re saying. I have my days when I feel like being all dolled up and anyone that meets me then might get the wrong impression about who I am as a person.
That’s why I’m always concerned about anyone that might see pictures of me online taken during a night out. I clean up good, but that’s not an everyday representation of me.
yep I know exactly what you mean.
First of all, I have to tell you that I love this blog and I’m so glad I found it!
I am, by your definition, feminine, but not a femme. I don’t know anything about makeup, I abhor lipstick, I have heels, but I rarely wear them, I work more toward looking presentable than looking fab, and feel special if you ever catch me in a dress. I am not dominant in bed and .I like that whole chivalry thing. I’ve always referred to myself as a low-maintenance femme. However, when paired with a femme, I take on dominant qualities.
Nik, we have a few things in common. While I’m no stud, when I date women more feminine than me, I do find myself being more dominant. I open doors, help them out of cars, walk on the side of the street closest to the curb and I take the lead in the bedroom. It’s seamless for me, requiring no thought at all. And I don’t really like being like that all of the time. It makes me a little uncomfortable.
Same here, which is why I prefer not to date femmes. But it is just a preference…nothing’s written in stone.
Hi Alix,
With me being a femme just means that I don’t want to be nor is it natural for me to be dominating in a relationship. With that said I do have my moods and moments when I will take charge of a situation. So being femme is a fluid thing for me that changes.
I’ve dated both soft studs and AG femmes and from what I’ve seen the labels that they wear are just shorthand that helps in the beginning of the relationship. Once I got to really know them I realized that they too lived in those roles only sometimes and to varying degrees.
I guess my point is that I’m not really too caught-up on lesbian labels. People are just who they are and since I don’t want anyone to put me in a box I won’t do it to anyone else either.
I agree that it’s definitely shorthand for the beginning of the relationship. Down the road people can compromise to find a balance that works for both parties, however, I do believe that the foundation of the relationship won’t change much. If someone is more dominant in the beginning of the relationship, they will always expect to be.
Hmm, this a tough one. Well we can totally rule out femme, lol.
I like your definitions! I still recall the breakdown of definition about studs and tombois you wrote some time ago.
Thanks for the shout out!
And I’m not wearing a lick of green!
Sometimes I think we’re cut from the same cloth, but I think you might be a little more dominant than me. Poor Kay.
Sending you a virtual pinch and your birthday licks! Meaning hits! lol
I think that often too Alix, and I agree that I probably am a little more dominant, but Kay is certainly not complaining.
I laughed so much upon seeing your correction of birthday licks! Yum! I’ll have to remember that one, lol.
Yeah, I didn’t want Kay coming after me.
i’m definitely no femme, but i would describe most of my personality characteristics as feminine….but when i say that to people, they tend to laugh…
It makes perfect sense to me.
Interesting blog. I guess I would just be feminine. I am feminine, but not exaggerated.
Won’t catch you in pink wearing pearls? lol
Shoot, I dunno what the heck I am. Maybe an aggressive femme? Or a feminine aggressive? Fuck. My head hurts. Sometimes I dress in skinny jeans that are tight, the occasional heels (that’s just b/c I’m already 5′8), a dress with a plunging neckline, or a short skirt to show off my legs. Other times I wear boys clothes like loose fitting Levis, some Chucks, and a boy V neck or sweater. My make up and hair are always done though and I LOVE being dominant…and also dominated in the bed. One reason why I hate labels…none of them fit me! I’m just flexible I guess.
Ever heard of a stem? I know. Another label. One I haven’t even mentioned. It’s just a combo of a stud and femme. You’re like the ultimate in versatility…
When I was pretending to be straight I was a huge tomboy, so much so that I was borderline butch, LOL. My hair was about 3 inches long.
Now that I am totally out, my hair is to the middle of my back and I wear much more feminine clothes. The tomboy still shows up when I want to just hang out….
I think the the lesbian I am was just itching to come out so I could finally be fully a woman!
I love that you said you were “pretending to be straight.” Don’t I remember those days!
Seems like your outer lesbian was out before your inner lesbian was…
By this definition, definitely not a femme. But I am feminine. I love cute shoes, always wear earrings and jewelry, and generally I like girly type accessories. I don’t wear heels on a regular, though, because they kill my feet. I’m a flats and jeans kind of girl. I don’t wear makeup except for lip gloss/color and eye shadow when I go out. I’m also not one of those girls who spends 3 hours in the bathroom. I can wash and go if need be, and be fine with it.
I’ve always been slightly uncomfortable with the labels just because I don’t entirely fit into one. I can be quite shy at times, and other times, I have no problem leading. In relationships, I’m the one who holds the door open.
Curious about the kindo of girl you normally date. Would she be more feminine or less feminine than you?
I prefer moreso. I have never been physically attracted to a stud/AG, soft or otherwise (well, there was one inappropriate exception, but that’s generally how it’s been for me).
Was it inappropriate because it was a stud?
No, it was inappropriate because I worked with her and she’s much younger than I. It was also unexpected because like I said, that’s not usually my type at all.
A coworker? yea, that can get nasty! and not in a good way…
Hmmm, well crafted entry Miss Alix. Well, I am neither, just a female. I have missed out on the whole era of purses and make-up. I could never understand what the big deal is with the purses, and why so many things in the purse? I carry a bagpack with me almost everywhere I go.
I must say though, that I have come accross the women who appear feminine and then are quite aggressive…so right you are, because I cannot keep them as girlfriends. I am used to the ones who take a long time to get dressed and love shoes and so on. At the same time though, these women that I am interested in cannot be “ditsy” and must be mentally strong and powerful women in their own way. I am not looking for someone who will body slam me and take control of me during our sexcapade episodes.
I just love a feminine femme. Yummy, yummy, yummy!
I really didn’t expect you to claim being femme or feminine, but I knew that you would add a different view to this convo.
I don’t like purses. I stick everything I need in my pocket. I carry a purse when other people ask me to. Those that can’t get away with carrying a purse. Someone like you.
You want a really feminine femme. A typical girly, girl. Do you expect her to be less domininant because she’s a femme?
Yes, I expect her to be less dominant…I prefer this. However, dominant can be sexy depending on what she is being dominant about.
When is it not sexy?
When she tells me to f**ck her hard and grabs my hair
Alix…
This post had me thinking where I would fall between the two catagories. After rereading your definition…I decided I am most definitely square in the middle of both.
Here’s an example: I had multiple fractures to my right leg. Although I could NOT walk….I crawled into the bathroom and put my leg over the edge of the tub…I was not about to go to the hospital unless my legs were shaved. I also made sure my makeup and hair didn’t look as if I’d just been beat up (which is exactly how this injury happened) Of course…I am OUT of that abusive relatiionship
From the time I was a child (there were six siblings) many times there were photos taken of us outside playing. I was the only one of the six ALWAYS with shoes and socks on and my blouse tucked in…and had ribbons or bows in my hair.
GREAT POST!!
Michelle
This middle ground you’ve reached, did that come with time? Because it seems as though the early version of you was quite prissy
Alix…
You got it right! Reaching the middle ground took time. I laughed out loud when you said my early version seemed “quite prissy”….Prissy was what my family called me…and I hated it
Michelle
Don’t tell anyone, but my family used to call me Miss Priss too…
And like you, I hated it!
ohh..I think in any relationship you’ll have someone more of a dom.
I need someone a little more dominat than me..that’s just what I prefer.
But I’m sooo bad in heels.I’m not a femme yet, I’m kinda working on the heels, but that’s just what I call myself.
Even though someone looking at me may call me more of a tomboy, but I think I’m a femme.
Of course someone has to take the lead! I don’t really believe it has to be the same person all of the time.
You’d be surprised at the number of women that can’t walk in heels. I think there is a learning curve on this one…
Great topic and post! Funny, because I just learned a new term “Stem”. One of my bestfriends refers to herself as one. She’s very aggressive like most studs but, she’s not a femme. Although, like you she can get dressed up every once in a while to “go out”. I’m guessing she could also be labeled as an AG.
I am NOT at all agressive. Yes I carry purses (lately I’ve been more into bags). I guess I just carry a lot of shit like a few journals, magazines, books, pens, chapsticks, and a month worth of receipts lol. I ONLY wear heels when I’m “in the mood” to or “going out”. My days of wearing eyeshadow is over but, if It’s my birthday or if I’m in the mood to when going out I will wear mascara and black eyeliner. I’ve never done the foundation thing. Sneakers are my bestfriend. I’m a t-shirt and jean girl and I could care less about rocking a short dress or skirt to the club. I honestly hate dresses and skirts and I’ve always been comfy in jeans. I do wear earrings sometimes they’re often huge. Unlike most girls or “femmes” I HATE shopping. I always feel overwhelmed and tired. I get frustrated with shopping real quick. I paint my toes and do stuff that’s considered “girly” but, I don’t know if I’d fit the “femme” category completely. I wouldn’t say I’m a “stem” and I’m sure not a “stud” but, idk I’m just me.
Dude, femme here—hate shopping….love dresses, but never wear them though. I should get on that.
Wow.. hey now. I leave for a few hours and there is a fire! what a hot topic! Ahh…. I hate labels but love ‘em at the same time. I don’t think I fit into to either category. don’t wear makeup, don’t own a dress or a skirt and def. don’t have the heels, ok, one pair of dress up BOOTS! and they have a chunky bottom to them. I’d be a hazard walking on anything tiny! I have fem. features and when my hair grows out a bit from my short up kept do guys them I’m “on the market”………… I’m in the grey…………….
oh yeah and I rock a wallet…….it’s much simplier!
Isn’t it?
what kind of woman are you attracted to?
Look in the mirror! Lol ; P O.k. maybe not lol since I have no idea what you look like. For the most part I am into women that are more masculine than me. Someone that is a protector but that also wants to be taken care of and lets not forget about being capable of maintaining stimulating and intellectual conversations. There’s nothing worse than an attractive woman with no brains.
Oooh, can’t stand stupid girls! They are a deal breaker!
Simply feminine!!!!!!
Thanks for popping in Herchell!
I’m a new reader and really enjoying your posts so far.
I think this is a great post. I’ve been struggling with the idea of Femme versus Feminine. I used the term Femme at first because I was more feminine than Andros, Butches, or Studs, but it didn’t feel authentic for me. To me, it did feel like an act.
So, I’ve started calling myself a Feminine Lesbian, for lack of a better label. I wear jeans, skirts, and nice shirts, nice flats or boots, jewelry, light make-up, perfume, and carry a purse. I’m interested in domestic things like cooking and gardening. I like crafts and reading too. I’m practical, strong, and independent, but not rebellious, aggressive, boisterous, or overly flirty. I’m really a little shy and quiet when meeting someone for the first time.
I started off calling myself a femme too because I didn’t realize there were other ways I could describe myself. Everything for me back in those days was so black and white. It took me a long time to see people that embraced being in the middle.
I would wonder though by calling yourself a feminine lesbian if you are implying that most lesbians aren’t feminine?
I don’t think that should imply that at all. If i call myself a feminine lesbian, it’s just because I happen to be one, not because I think 98% of lesbians are studs or butch.
I was thinking along the same lines as Chanel. I use it to define who I am. I’m not trying to say that most Lesbians aren’t feminine. But I see where it could be taken that way.
For me, I think labeling myself as a Feminine Lesbian is about visibility and pride, rather than disrespecting others. I do think there is still a great deal of Femme/Feminine invisibility in the Lesbian community.
Who are they invisible to? Do you mean femme/femme relationships?
Not necessarily Femme/Femme relationships.
But in my experience, I have found that Femmes are often judged or assumed to be straight, unlike Studs or Butches. It’s assumed by other Lesbians and men.
great topic and great blog Alix. i am feminine not a femme. i think the difference lies in the thinking. plainly speaking, femmes think stereotypically female while feminine women don’t (necessarily). studs who LOVVVE femmes seem to love them not only for their obvious femininity but also for their more traditional beliefs, attitudes etc.
When you say more traditional beliefs, do you mean gender roles? Like the femme takes care of the house while the stud is the provider?
I’m so late and since there are 43 comments (that I haven’t read) I’ll just post my response to what you wrote. I’m a femme b/c I claim femme. If you don’t claim femme then you aren’t. I feel the “labels” thing is short hand for appearance, but at the same time can’t be forced on someone. I am a femme though the description you wrote isn’t my daily appearance or personality by a long shot, lol. There are all types of femmes with all different mentalities, appearances, etc. I try not to stereotype just based on what ID someone takes on, any more than I’d stereotype the ID of “woman” or “man”.
“And she thinks like a man. Can’t you see why we’re friends? For most studs this is a bit of a blow to their perceived “masculinity,” so they move on to someone a bit more docile.”
What I usually resent is the implication that feminine persons and femmes are not or cannot be dominant in nature or like a 50/50 relationship (which is something that I demand). Masculinity (whether in male or stud) and automatic assumed dominance do not go hand in hand…and personally I think it’s a sexist attitude that keeps women as a whole down. There is nothing wrong with having the type of personality to let someone else lead, however I would not let someone curse me out and some such…asshole behavior shouldn’t be accepted by anyone. Here it seems femme=weak. Not the case at ALL.
Femmes aren’t weak and stud’s aren’t strong. I do believe that their is a delicate balance in relationships that must be had for both parties to be happy.
I do believe that there are certain personality traits that are associated with men. Traits such as aggressiveness, competitiveness, ambition and dominance are often regarded as masculine while traits such as kindness, sympathy, and nurturing are regarded as feminine. I also believe that every person is made up of varying degrees of masculine and feminine traits. Meaning a woman(or femme) can be dominant and a man(stud) can be nurturing.
Two domininate people are going to have problems having a relationship. They are going to constantly bump heads. That’s the point I was making about my friend. After dealing with her abrasive attitude any woman they deal with is going to seem docile.
A lot of studs do believe in traditional gender roles which may be the reason why they seek femmes. It’s very sexist for anyone to believe that there are things a woman is supposed to do because of their perceived role in society.
Wondering…Do you call yourself a femme because that’s how people see you or because that’s who you believe you are? I do agree that it’s shorthand for appearance and I’ll be damned if anyone forces a label on me. That’s why I enjoy these types of conversations so much. Everyone has their own opinions and it proves that the labeling (while useful) doesn’t work.
I call myself femme b/c it’s a conscious decision to do so. Why? That’s an essay lol…hmm would make a good post I suppose. Also my ideal appearance, which I don’t achieve everyday b/c I’m lazy/don’t care, would probably scream someone’s stereotype of ‘femme’.
“Everyone has their own opinions and it proves that the labeling (while useful) doesn’t work.”
I think that may be more or less true for all social categories. What makes someone Black? Some people say skin color, but what if you’re mixed, are you still black? Some people get called an ‘oreo’ if they aren’t “culturally black”. What we call people (labels) may not make sense but helps us understand the world around us and our relative place in it. ok that’s all, lol.
lol, you sure that’s all? you got me really thinking today. I appreciate it. This kind of interaction is what it’s all about…
I’d love to read that. You’re right, it is a good idea for a post…
I’m neither femme nor feminine, though I have aspects of everything in the way I carry myself. The statement, ‘I’m a woman’ is what accurately describes me.
I hear you roaring!
Interesting topic…I definitely have feminine tendencies but am not a femme as far as my style of dress….my friends joke that im a gay man and i probably was in my former life…i have an athletic build which equates to some sort of masculinity but i am very much feminine in my tendencies but very much still protective or dominant role in certain aspects of a relationship…i attract feminine women and some get surprised that I am actually as feminine as i am….some old lovers have hated and have been dismissed but i cant help who i am…my current relationship, i would best describe her her as an aggressive fem b/c of her outward appearance is more feminine- she loves for me to take a dominant role in our relationship but she also loves to take control and i enjoy letting her…so its a good balance…and great sex
I’ve heard femmes say that their stud wasn’t hard enough before. Have you ever heard that? I think that goes back to what we expect from people based on their outside appearance. Because you appeared masculine, they didn’t expect you to be sensitive or extra hygenic or whatever, lol… It sounds as though an aggressive femme is a great balance for you.
Thanks again for stopping by…
Well, now that you put it so plainly, I guess I’m feminine. Clearly not rocking make-up or stilletos daily. I get my nails done once in a while. I do love to accessorize though. I have two closets full of purses and jewelry everywhere. Just like Chanel, my pinky finger is always extended and I consider myself to be prissy and saditty. Hell, I don’t know anymore. That’s why I hate labels. Let’s just keep it at “I’m a woman and I behave and look the way I please.”
lol *peeling the label off of ladbug*
Hi Alix
I don’t get the need for labels although I understand that most people seem to require one. Identity is flexible and it’s shallow to judge people solely on appearance. Most of the time I wear my hair out in an afro, I use eyeliner and lipgloss and have fun dressing up. But I can also rock men’s jeans, a vest, sneakers and cornrows when I feel like it – a little tomboy edge. Regarless of whether I’m looking ‘femme’ or ‘tomboyish’ I’m still me – opinionated, feminine, funky. I disagree – femininity isn’t a bent wrist or a sashay or acrylic nails- those are outdated stereotypes. I’m so happy that I have a (feminine) girlfriend that isn’t rigid in her expectations of who I am depending on how I’m dressed. People are usually disbelieving that we’re a couple because of our feminine appearnaces. There’s no ‘top’ or ‘bottom’ in our dynamic. Everything just flows naturally and organically. No labels, no expectations.
It’s very shallow to judge people on their appearance, however that’s reality. I think it’s great that you can be you no matter what you wear. That’s exactly the way people are supposed to be and to have found someone that understands that it’s not about your outside appearance is wonderful. There are a lot of lesbians that don’t understand that. I do believe that in relationships there is always a person that is more dominant than the other. It may not be the same person in every situation, but some one has to take the lead and someone has to follow.
A bent wrist and sashay isn’t a stereotype, associating it with a man and calling him gay would be they stereotype. Those two traits alone will always be associated with women which makes them feminine traits.
Why do lesbians always have to label themselves all the time?
It’s not just lesbians, I think everyone does it. I think it’s just more evident in our community though
my personal definition of femme is much looser. femme, to me, is a celebration of femininity. you can be feminine and not think about it, or not care about it, or dislike it. but i call myself femme because i love my femininity. my femininity happens to be very submissive and a little tomboyish (so others don’t always think of me as femme), but it could just as well be strong, or dominant, or the sort that “screams girly when you look at her.” to me, all of those things can be femme (or, of course, not).
also, though, i like labels. i don’t think it is shallow to judge people on their appearance, as most people put a lot of effort into creating an appearance that will give clues about who they are in a deeper way. the part that *is* shallow is clinging to those initial judgments – *of course* they could be untrue, just like someone might think of a label differently than you. as long as you are flexible about it, they can both be handy tools in interacting with people.
I agree with you. It’s all surface. Most people see themselves differently than others because they do know themselves better than the outside world. It would be a tragic mistake to judge someone’s actions based on what you’d expect them to do based on their appearance….